Category talk:Te Ao
Category:Whakamārama
Just wondering about whether Te Ao isn't a bit too all-encompassing? Also Ao can have many meanings. What is the equivalent on enWiki. Kahuroa 10:14, 14 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Universe - it is fairly all-encompassing; most of what's currently in this one would be better in the equivalent of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Geography. Robin Patterson 20:30, 14 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)
- Te Ao can also just mean 'the world' rather than 'universe'. As you say, Geography might be better, for which Te Matatiki has Mātai Matawhenua. Kahuroa 05:24, 15 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)
A few of the meanings of Ao (this is just a few examples when it is used as a noun): daytime, world, cloud, bud, dawn, bark of a dog, cosmos, earth, realm. World is a more common meaning rather than universe. In Te Matatiki, ao tukupū = universe. It also means 'world' or possibly 'planet' in:
- pae o te ao = equator (Ngata),
- weheruatanga o te ao = equator (Te Matatiki),
- Ao ki te tonga = Southern Hemisphere (Ngata),
- pakanga o te ao = world war
Other high-level categories[takatā pūtake]
Am looking at categorising using en as a model. Looks like towns/cities would come under urban geography, then that under human geography, then that under geography, - maybe we could just start with Mātai Matawhenua (geography) for now Kahuroa 00:01, 27 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)
- Ka pai:
- category:mātai matawhenua as in Te Matatiki is fine by me. (Reed Pocket says geography is "mātauranga, whenua" (throwing in a comma just to confuse us learners) then contradicts itself by showing "mātauranga-ā-whenua" in the other half of the book.) Until we get much bigger I wouldn't be keen to include an "urban geography" cat; "tāone" would be separated from their "wai" by more steps than necessary, for example, with category paths being unnecessarily long. I approve of using "en" as a model (even for Wikia sites) but not where it's out of scale with a mere thousand-article wiki.
- Then category:mātai matawhenua is a subcategory of a slightly redefined category:Te Ao (keeping its capital "A" as a hint of its uniqueness; and clearly stated to mean "Earth", nothing bigger - and/or clarified in Te Reo), which will switch to being a subcategory of category:ao tukupū (= universe) (which can have the stars and planet(s) transferred to it, and will initially be a subcategory of category:whakaraparapa rather than going up the en:Category:Cosmology path)?
- Then, sidestepping after all of that, would you like to suggest a name for a "living creatures" category to include category:manu (and ika, etc) under Te Ao?
- Robin Patterson 02:00, 27 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)
- Re 1: Agree - I agree that we should not get too detailed just yet - otherwise we will have a category with not much in it, which would defeat the purpose. I wasn't meaning that we should follow E exactly - its even more complex than I outlined above, but maybe follow it in terms of high-level categories and fill in the details later. Better to have a cat that has a decent number of pages in it when the user clicks on the category.
- We are right on the same wavelength there. Robin.
- Re 2: what do you mean by 'whakaraparapa'?? Browse? Overlook?
- "Browse"; maybe you can improve on the description of that category. Robin
- Re 3: Te Matataki has mātai kararehe for zoology. On first thought anyway kararehe - beasts, animals, manu - birds. Te Matatiki has hātaretare for invertebrates, whakangote for mammals which might also be of use. Te Matatiki for botany is mātauranga huaota Kahuroa 05:28, 27 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)
- All fine by me. (But keeping hātaretare and whakangote in reserve until we have 3 or 4 articles for each.) Robin
- Re 1: Agree - I agree that we should not get too detailed just yet - otherwise we will have a category with not much in it, which would defeat the purpose. I wasn't meaning that we should follow E exactly - its even more complex than I outlined above, but maybe follow it in terms of high-level categories and fill in the details later. Better to have a cat that has a decent number of pages in it when the user clicks on the category.
PS - there are 8 main portal links on the header of the en Wiki - I add here the Te Matatiki equivalents in brackets - Arts (Mahi toi), Biography (Haurongo), Geography (Mātai matawhenua), History (Kōrero o mua), Mathematics (Pāngarau), Science (Pūtaiao), Society (Hapori whānui), Technology (Hangarau). I like those - what do you think about using them in our categories? Kahuroa 05:39, 27 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)
- Ka pai, katoa. (Please 'scuse grammar or lack of it.) I fully support Te Matatiki despite doubts about whether some of its words will ever catch on. And a lot of collective wisdom has produced that set of 8.
- There is just a risk of confusing a subject/object/category with the study of it; eg, geography is not the physical features of the earth but (COD 10th edition) (1) the study of them and of human activity as it relates to them, and (2) their relative arrangement. I found and pointed out an amusing sequence of four "endless ring" categories in "en" last year, probably caused in part by that sort of confusion. I don't know whether your proposed categories might have a tendency to risk confusing Te Reo readers by confusing the study with the object. Differences may be less than in English. Robin Patterson 07:10, 27 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)
- Oh well we can always fix any rings if they threaten to develop. I was just throwing words around up there, not making any firm proposals apart from the idea of the 8. Draw us up your version if you like - TWhR has laid down the standard with Te Matatiki and it isn't our worry whether or not they catch on - it is the best authority available - the alternative is messier - no standard Kahuroa 08:29, 27 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)
- (later edit: 8 or 9 would work layout-wise on the header of Hau Kāinga, I don't mind what they are particularly as long as it is feasible longterm - if you come up with them I'll translate them.)Kahuroa 09:46, 27 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)
- Oh well we can always fix any rings if they threaten to develop. I was just throwing words around up there, not making any firm proposals apart from the idea of the 8. Draw us up your version if you like - TWhR has laid down the standard with Te Matatiki and it isn't our worry whether or not they catch on - it is the best authority available - the alternative is messier - no standard Kahuroa 08:29, 27 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)
Go for those eight[takatā pūtake]
You came up with them and translated them impressively and I said "Ka pai, katoa. ... a lot of collective wisdom has produced that set of 8" - so please put them up and I'll help make their actual categories workable and usefully linked where they should be. And "feasible longterm" isn't a critically important standard, with the ease of changing wiki pages! Robin Patterson 20:25, 27 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)
"Finalise" this category and its parent and sub categories?[takatā pūtake]
("Finalise" for this month/year, anyway!) As above, with any variation you feel strongly about. Robin Patterson 20:25, 27 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)
- I think we need to draw up a table listing the high-level headings and their subcategories before we finalise anything and maybe hold off doing too much categorising till then. Some of them seem a bit off because they have been named by English speakers who don't understand the meaning of the words. Motu I changed to moutere. Another example is Rohe is one which doesnt make sense to me - usually means boundaries, it has 1 article - Whangaparaoa. Kahuroa 11:22, 29 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)